I know a lot of guys on this site have been following football and basketball recruiting for as long as I have or longer.. I have had an interest and followed it since I was little, in 1978. More seriously after watching Clark Kellogg and Magic Johnson in high school as that was an absolute thrill to see them play in Cleveland and Lansing, respectively. So almost 40 years of following recruiting to some degree.
In the days of printed newsletters and publications, only without internet, I wanted to seriously get involved in the recruiting business.. Now with Twitter, every decision comes out in real time so by the time a story comes out in print, its old news. Even internet sites have trouble keeping up as people follow these kids as they put out personal stuff in real time. So for me, it was not worth pursuing farther though it was like an obsession. Basketball was my first love so I subscribed to all the original publications whether on the newsstand(Street and Smith) or subscriptions like Basketball Times, Hoop Scoop, Future Stars, 5 star, etc. Football recruiting besides Street and Smith was covered mostly by Tom Lemming and Bill Kurelic in Ohio. I asked a ton of questions to guys in the recruiting industry and to college coaches who shared what they were looking for at various positions both in football and basketball.. Asked them in detail to what they meant by qualities they wanted to see by going to the games with the coaches(when they weren't coaching or games on TV) so I had examples in my mind to what to look for while watching in the stands or viewing a player on tape. I wrote them down and kept them in case I ever got involved in the recruiting industry.
I read some threads here and I hope for some you, that you understand about information whether it is ratings or stars... In football, you have 22 spots on the field.. Positions like offensive tackles, defensive tackle, Receivers, running backs DEs, LBs, CBs, and safeties, you have more than one of those on the field at any given time. So really you are looking at 14 to 16 positions(Middle LB has different skill set than OLB and Strong Safety different from free safety.. You can probably add 2-3 more back if you want to add field corner vs boundary corner or fullback vs. tailback though fullback is more and more obsolete. Plus you have kickers, punters, and long snappers.
In basketball, much easier because you have 5 positions instead of 22 positions.. But both sports you have literally thousands of kids being evaluated... No matter how big the organization of evaluators are for a scouting service, that organization is at the mercy of the evaluators to some extent... So a LOT OF TRUST is involved. Contacts are at a premium.. Just think about this. If each DIvision 1 football program signs 20 kids a year, that is over 2500-3000 kids a year to be evaluated. If you spent watching 1 hour of tape on each kid, that would take up your entire work year. Plus think about it then write about it. That is why staffs have MANY PEOPLE doing evaluating and they have to trust the evaluators.. One person can only get so much information on each kid by watching them play at one time. So there is only so much THOROUGH evaluation that any scouting service can do, regardless the amount of people. There is communication between contacts that are trusted and metrics taken at camps that are used in evaluations.. Reputation and news clippings have to come into effect especially if they play top level competition, to see how they perform. That is true in all sports. Recruiting services have to trust more regional or local guys that get to see these kids play more consistently.. But it is still the OPINION of the evaluator.. This is true for everyone including me when I write about a kid that I see. It is my opinion.. It may or may not be a true reflection of what the kid can do on field. Or the result of what will happen during his collegiate career.
Some evaluators have a habit of OVERSTATING a kid's ability or some always are UNDERSTATING IT... So I always take the "STAR SYSTEM" with a grain of salt... Scouting services do very well with the resources they have but there are still limitations. Ultimately, the kids being evaluated have to 'lace 'em up' and/or put on the pads IN COLLEGE to see what they can do... If a kid did not go to a camp to compete against the best, he may not get the star rating or even the offers so finding out if the kid camped anywhere is something to see if there is a DIAMOND IN THE ROUGH.. Getting kids that didn't camp at bigger schools is how Barry Alvarez got his kids in the early classes.. Kids for Wisconsin's early classes under Alvarez, weren't going to get high star ratings or huge offers because no one knew about them including scouting services. Barry trusted his assistants and his own eyes, which proved to serve him well.. THERE ARE SOME GUYS THAT EVALUATE WHO HAVE A NATURAL FEEL FOR BEING ABLE TO PROJECT A KID AT THE COLLEGE LEVEL and those are the ones that are the most trusted to listen to, IMO.
Trust is an important component between evaluators because there just is not enough time to find things out other than metrics at a camp. Anyone can get the size-speed ratio thing and the toughness of competition out of an internet article but to know about the player is a totally different issue.. For a small school kid or one that has not attended camps, evaluators have to try to measure ability and if the player may be slightly deficient in size or speed, evaluators have to try to measure the heart of the player. Guys that coached are better at evaluating that than scouting services, for the most part, unless the scouting service has great coaching contacts. Again, Barry Alvarez and his staff were excellent at that and that is a big reason his kids overachieved. That is where fans see walk ons or marginal recruits 'move to the front of the line' and become stars. Some kids develop much later and that is a whole other issue that persons good at projecting seem to have a better feel though empirical evidence may not exist to back it up. JUST REMEMBER THAT SCOUTING SERVICES ARE LOOKING AT GENERALITIES AND ARE NOT GOING TO BE "PROGRAM SPECIFIC".. When it comes to intangibles or things like personality and ability to comprehend teaching or coaching, that can only be evaluated by the staffs of the colleges
I SAY ALL THIS TO POINT OUT THAT COACH FLECK's RECRUITING CLASS IS HIGHLY REGARDED AND FOR THAT, WE CAN BE EXCITED.. Same is true for Pitino's classes in basketball, for the most part. But guys can turn out to be overrated by evaluators or even coaches.. Just like us as fans, players' lives are dynamic and circumstances of life change. Same is true for college athletes... Family events, breaking up with a girlfriend, injuries, changing of minds, being away from home, learning how to live life away from parents and family.. All these things can affect performance on the field.. The kids have always been the BIG MAN ON CAMPUS so being put on the bench may be a first for these kids.. So it takes time to develop and teach the kid patience.. They are used to success in high school RIGHT AWAY and that may change in college.
I ENCOURAGE GOPHER FANS TO BE EXCITED FOR THE POTENTIAL of the recruiting class but for the informed fan, that is all that should be expected.. What happens on the field remains to be seen. Kids that are highly rated may disappoint and kids low rated may exceed their ranking. I can tell you that I was asked by 2 coaching staffs that were former national champions in basketball(one JC program and one NAIA program) to suggest a player that would fit into their system.. One player I suggested for the JC school, I said this was a perfect fit who was 6-8 post player that was athletic enough to have placed in state in the high jump and thought was very skilled.. I knew his grades were bad so JC seemed like a good fit...At my suggestion, the JC school sent an assistant coach to the game to watch the kid play and the kid had 3 fouls in the first 5 minutes of the game as well as got into a shoving match with an opponent.. I had not seen that out of the kid before and if I did, I would have never suggested the kid to the school... A bad suggestion and they never came to me again.. Conversely, I called this NAIA school about a different kid and the school made the kid their top priority in recruiting.. The head coach has since retired but contacted me about other players later on. So my 'amateur evaluations' have been both good and bad but I have learned a lot over the years.. I would never suggest a player to a program again unless I was awfully sure of his ability, temperament, and aptitude to accept coaching.
My point is evaluators and coaches sometimes have very little information to make a decision to give a kid a free ride in school and help their team.. They are as thorough as they can be but because of limitations and just the unknowns of life, don't be disappointed in the kid or coaching staff OR THE SCOUTING SERVICE LIKE RIVALS.. Or don't get too high with a top rated class.. A lot goes into making a great player and that is not something that is always predictable as an 18 year old from evaluators in a scouting service or as coaches looking for great talent.. Its important to separate the excitement from a highly regarded recruiting class to the actual performance on the field.. These are kids that have chosen to become part of something we love dearly.. Keep in mind that they are doing their best to entertain us while getting a degree of substance for their future.. Stars or point ratings don't matter once they hit the field so all we can do is stand behind the coaches and support the kids as they grow.. The MOST IMPORTANT STAR RANKING IS WHAT THEY END UP AFTER COLLEGE NOT BEFORE THEY START!!
In the days of printed newsletters and publications, only without internet, I wanted to seriously get involved in the recruiting business.. Now with Twitter, every decision comes out in real time so by the time a story comes out in print, its old news. Even internet sites have trouble keeping up as people follow these kids as they put out personal stuff in real time. So for me, it was not worth pursuing farther though it was like an obsession. Basketball was my first love so I subscribed to all the original publications whether on the newsstand(Street and Smith) or subscriptions like Basketball Times, Hoop Scoop, Future Stars, 5 star, etc. Football recruiting besides Street and Smith was covered mostly by Tom Lemming and Bill Kurelic in Ohio. I asked a ton of questions to guys in the recruiting industry and to college coaches who shared what they were looking for at various positions both in football and basketball.. Asked them in detail to what they meant by qualities they wanted to see by going to the games with the coaches(when they weren't coaching or games on TV) so I had examples in my mind to what to look for while watching in the stands or viewing a player on tape. I wrote them down and kept them in case I ever got involved in the recruiting industry.
I read some threads here and I hope for some you, that you understand about information whether it is ratings or stars... In football, you have 22 spots on the field.. Positions like offensive tackles, defensive tackle, Receivers, running backs DEs, LBs, CBs, and safeties, you have more than one of those on the field at any given time. So really you are looking at 14 to 16 positions(Middle LB has different skill set than OLB and Strong Safety different from free safety.. You can probably add 2-3 more back if you want to add field corner vs boundary corner or fullback vs. tailback though fullback is more and more obsolete. Plus you have kickers, punters, and long snappers.
In basketball, much easier because you have 5 positions instead of 22 positions.. But both sports you have literally thousands of kids being evaluated... No matter how big the organization of evaluators are for a scouting service, that organization is at the mercy of the evaluators to some extent... So a LOT OF TRUST is involved. Contacts are at a premium.. Just think about this. If each DIvision 1 football program signs 20 kids a year, that is over 2500-3000 kids a year to be evaluated. If you spent watching 1 hour of tape on each kid, that would take up your entire work year. Plus think about it then write about it. That is why staffs have MANY PEOPLE doing evaluating and they have to trust the evaluators.. One person can only get so much information on each kid by watching them play at one time. So there is only so much THOROUGH evaluation that any scouting service can do, regardless the amount of people. There is communication between contacts that are trusted and metrics taken at camps that are used in evaluations.. Reputation and news clippings have to come into effect especially if they play top level competition, to see how they perform. That is true in all sports. Recruiting services have to trust more regional or local guys that get to see these kids play more consistently.. But it is still the OPINION of the evaluator.. This is true for everyone including me when I write about a kid that I see. It is my opinion.. It may or may not be a true reflection of what the kid can do on field. Or the result of what will happen during his collegiate career.
Some evaluators have a habit of OVERSTATING a kid's ability or some always are UNDERSTATING IT... So I always take the "STAR SYSTEM" with a grain of salt... Scouting services do very well with the resources they have but there are still limitations. Ultimately, the kids being evaluated have to 'lace 'em up' and/or put on the pads IN COLLEGE to see what they can do... If a kid did not go to a camp to compete against the best, he may not get the star rating or even the offers so finding out if the kid camped anywhere is something to see if there is a DIAMOND IN THE ROUGH.. Getting kids that didn't camp at bigger schools is how Barry Alvarez got his kids in the early classes.. Kids for Wisconsin's early classes under Alvarez, weren't going to get high star ratings or huge offers because no one knew about them including scouting services. Barry trusted his assistants and his own eyes, which proved to serve him well.. THERE ARE SOME GUYS THAT EVALUATE WHO HAVE A NATURAL FEEL FOR BEING ABLE TO PROJECT A KID AT THE COLLEGE LEVEL and those are the ones that are the most trusted to listen to, IMO.
Trust is an important component between evaluators because there just is not enough time to find things out other than metrics at a camp. Anyone can get the size-speed ratio thing and the toughness of competition out of an internet article but to know about the player is a totally different issue.. For a small school kid or one that has not attended camps, evaluators have to try to measure ability and if the player may be slightly deficient in size or speed, evaluators have to try to measure the heart of the player. Guys that coached are better at evaluating that than scouting services, for the most part, unless the scouting service has great coaching contacts. Again, Barry Alvarez and his staff were excellent at that and that is a big reason his kids overachieved. That is where fans see walk ons or marginal recruits 'move to the front of the line' and become stars. Some kids develop much later and that is a whole other issue that persons good at projecting seem to have a better feel though empirical evidence may not exist to back it up. JUST REMEMBER THAT SCOUTING SERVICES ARE LOOKING AT GENERALITIES AND ARE NOT GOING TO BE "PROGRAM SPECIFIC".. When it comes to intangibles or things like personality and ability to comprehend teaching or coaching, that can only be evaluated by the staffs of the colleges
I SAY ALL THIS TO POINT OUT THAT COACH FLECK's RECRUITING CLASS IS HIGHLY REGARDED AND FOR THAT, WE CAN BE EXCITED.. Same is true for Pitino's classes in basketball, for the most part. But guys can turn out to be overrated by evaluators or even coaches.. Just like us as fans, players' lives are dynamic and circumstances of life change. Same is true for college athletes... Family events, breaking up with a girlfriend, injuries, changing of minds, being away from home, learning how to live life away from parents and family.. All these things can affect performance on the field.. The kids have always been the BIG MAN ON CAMPUS so being put on the bench may be a first for these kids.. So it takes time to develop and teach the kid patience.. They are used to success in high school RIGHT AWAY and that may change in college.
I ENCOURAGE GOPHER FANS TO BE EXCITED FOR THE POTENTIAL of the recruiting class but for the informed fan, that is all that should be expected.. What happens on the field remains to be seen. Kids that are highly rated may disappoint and kids low rated may exceed their ranking. I can tell you that I was asked by 2 coaching staffs that were former national champions in basketball(one JC program and one NAIA program) to suggest a player that would fit into their system.. One player I suggested for the JC school, I said this was a perfect fit who was 6-8 post player that was athletic enough to have placed in state in the high jump and thought was very skilled.. I knew his grades were bad so JC seemed like a good fit...At my suggestion, the JC school sent an assistant coach to the game to watch the kid play and the kid had 3 fouls in the first 5 minutes of the game as well as got into a shoving match with an opponent.. I had not seen that out of the kid before and if I did, I would have never suggested the kid to the school... A bad suggestion and they never came to me again.. Conversely, I called this NAIA school about a different kid and the school made the kid their top priority in recruiting.. The head coach has since retired but contacted me about other players later on. So my 'amateur evaluations' have been both good and bad but I have learned a lot over the years.. I would never suggest a player to a program again unless I was awfully sure of his ability, temperament, and aptitude to accept coaching.
My point is evaluators and coaches sometimes have very little information to make a decision to give a kid a free ride in school and help their team.. They are as thorough as they can be but because of limitations and just the unknowns of life, don't be disappointed in the kid or coaching staff OR THE SCOUTING SERVICE LIKE RIVALS.. Or don't get too high with a top rated class.. A lot goes into making a great player and that is not something that is always predictable as an 18 year old from evaluators in a scouting service or as coaches looking for great talent.. Its important to separate the excitement from a highly regarded recruiting class to the actual performance on the field.. These are kids that have chosen to become part of something we love dearly.. Keep in mind that they are doing their best to entertain us while getting a degree of substance for their future.. Stars or point ratings don't matter once they hit the field so all we can do is stand behind the coaches and support the kids as they grow.. The MOST IMPORTANT STAR RANKING IS WHAT THEY END UP AFTER COLLEGE NOT BEFORE THEY START!!
Last edited:
